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To: dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin)
Subject: TML Bundle #237: Msgs 2888-2906
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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
maintained by James Perkins, traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon Dec 16 10:35:33 PST 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #237: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2888  23-Sep-91 Bill Wilson       FTP site << I've moved a number of materials 
2889  23-Sep-91 Dan Corrin        Abbreviations? Why not use the extra keystrok
2890  24-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2884) Traveller revision << > I agree wi
2891  23-Sep-91 Marc Alexandrovic T2K, Traveller, etc << I have a passing acqua
2892  24-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2885) Traveller Mk III: An Editorial by,
2893  23-Sep-91 George William He Revision/Mk.III/whatever... << I just sent th
2894  24-Sep-91 MacGyver          Re: (2889) Abbreviations? Why not use the ext
2895  24-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha More Machinetools << Machinetools 2b Featured
2896  24-Sep-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Traveller revision << Alan Huscroft <ASSH
2897  24-Sep-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Guns are they! << Marc Alexandrovich Volo
2898  24-Sep-91 Bill Wilson       FTP site revisited... << I couldn't type when
2899  24-Sep-91 Nicholas Sylvain  NewTraveller << Lately I have been very busy 
2900  24-Sep-91 "Robert S. Dean"  Latest Travails << SPACE COMBAT I had the opp
2901  24-Sep-91 Richard Johnson   Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller << In last 
2902  25-Sep-91 MacGyver          Reponses on the Revision << My gosh, a few da
2903  25-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller << > From: 
2904  25-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha Re: Latest Travails << > From: "Robert S. Dea
2905  25-Sep-91 d9bertil@dtek.cha 2Re: Traveller Mk III: An Editorial... << > F
2906  25-Sep-91 ihlpf!zonker@ATT. Traveller Revisions << What I have from the h

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2888
From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1991 09:58:08 MST
Subject: FTP site

I've moved a number of materials to an alternate FTP site.  FTP to
akbar.ucc.nau.edu and login under the name anonymous.  I am housing
the sector data and a number of utilities.


- -- 
Let sleeping dragons lie........                    | The RoleMancer 
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
William Wilson (wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu | wilson@nauvax)
Northern AZ Univ  Flagstaff, AZ 86011

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2889
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 91 14:43:07 EDT
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Abbreviations? Why not use the extra keystrokes.


Excuse my ignorance, but it Mac's letter he wrote:

> [...]
> connected to it unlike the last time. DGP is probably devoting
> its entire resource to A.I. anyhow.

What exactly is A.I. (Besides Artificial Intelligence?)?

				-Dan

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2890
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2884) Traveller revision
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 1:19:06 EDT

> I agree with Ameer -- the game mechanics need revision and proofreading,
> but Leave Our Universe Alone!  The setting for the game is the single
> most important factor in making it so popular for so long.  I think it
> would be insane to make such drastic changes.  For my part, I'm still
> having trouble getting used to the Rebellion.

	To be honest, I don't like the Rebellion to begin with. 

> I find all this stuff about a computer virus causing widespread havoc
> across the Imperium to be higly dubious at best.  Even if a mechanism
> for carrying it from world to world could be contrived, it's hard to
> believe that the computer technology on the myriad different worlds
> would be sufficiently compatible to allow it to thrive.

	Well, I'm sure GDW will come up with a good explaination.
For the most part, GDW has been pretty good on this kind of stuff.
While I may not like Rebellion, it's at least believable. The new
universe is going to be introdcued at next years GenCon.

> What is the HIWG's view about this upheaval, I wonder?  Or DGP's?

	To be honest, I have no idea. I don't even know if they know
of this yet. I've stopped monitoring the Traveller board on GEnie.
But I doubt this was posted. All this information came from my talk 
with Lester Smith, one of the GDW in house staff designer. For those 
of you that don't know who he is, he did "Deathwatch Program" for 
2300 AD and Dark Conspiracy.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2891
From: Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 91 22:27:02 PDT
Subject: T2K, Traveller, etc

 
I have a passing acquaintance with T2000 1st edition. I have also read
the Challenge article describing fixes in T2000 2nd edition.
 
All this lends a new and urgent emphasis to TDR.
 
Come on people. Lets work and save our own sweet gluteae maximae.
 
Marc A. Volovic
 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2892
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2885) Traveller Mk III: An Editorial by, well, YOU know.
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 1:36:50 EDT

> I would very much like to determine whether or not this is a hoax, a
> cruel joke, or-- Lord help me-- the truth. Especially since any TMLer
> who bothers to read .signature files will have noted by now that the
> Chuck Gannon mentioned in Mac's latest insider report is a member of
> the TML. For the nonce, let us assume, with some skepticism, that the
> report is in fact true in extent and content, and go from there.

	As I have stated in the posting replying to Alan. The
information came from talking with Lester Smith. Since he does work
for GDW, and I'm in no mood to make up something like this, (Frankly,
I can't even if I wanted to.) I personally think it's the truth,
otherwise I wouldn't have bothered posting it to TML. Especially
since Lester Smith hasn't passed any information that turned out 
to be false to date.

>>>>> deleted
> they go out on a limb with this new Traveller rev, they'd better go all
> the way-- real artwork, good maps and inserts, a proper typesetting job,
> and all the elements that make a game buyer who buys from FASA or TSR
> feel like he's getting (at least in layout) a quality product.

	I think the current GDW is quite a bit better about maps, artwork,
typesetting, and all that stuff in my opinion. Dark Conspiracy in my
opinion, is the most flashy product GDW has ever produced that I've
seen. The maps and arts are just wonderful. And let me tell ya, before
I saw DarkCon, I was very skeptical myself.

	And to set the record straight, the revision is due out 
around Xmas time I believe. GenCon release date is for Star Viking.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2893
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 91 22:52:55 -0700
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Revision/Mk.III/whatever...


	I just sent the GDW people a bunch of more-or-less solicited
manuscripts and a request for info about that revision, if it's for real.
I'll let the list know in about a week when Michelle Sturgeon ought to
be back to me by.  I hope 8-), presuming she likes the April Fools scenario...

	IMHO... it was ten years from Traveller to MegaTraveller.  This I
do not see as having been good; as the old system was very creaky at the joints
in places.  By the end of 92, it will have been five years since MegaTraveller
hit the market.  Again, as we all know, it's creaky at the joints and is
having some problems.  Having worked with the T:2000 2nd ed. rules, I think
that they have a better place to start than MT does, though it needs some
polishing.

- -george
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2894
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: (2889) Abbreviations? Why not use the extra keystrokes.
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 2:31:07 EDT

> What exactly is A.I. (Besides Artificial Intelligence?)?

	A.I. is DGP's new game. It's also due out next August at GenCon.
The concept is that in a far away future, computer has become so 
advance that human relies on them to do everything. Some of the human have
direct link with the computer, thus can order the computer to do
things like produce illusion etc, which seems like magic to normal
people that doesn't understand what's going on. It's not that I'm lazy,
but the title of the game is called A.I. :)



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2895
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: More Machinetools
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 9:46:15 MET DST

   Machinetools 2b

   Featured Weapons: 5mm Body Pistol
                     7mm Automatic Pistol
                     9mm Automatic Pistol
                     9mm Caseless Automatic Pistol
                        [Interstellarms M911s1ID and M911s2ID series smartgun
                         versions of 9mm Caseless Automatic Pistol.]

Body Pistol 5mm

   The Bodypistol is designed to be especially hard to detect in security 
searches. It is done mostly in advanced materials which makes it more 
expensive than usual. Silencers are available at law level zero weighing 150g 
and costing Cr125. There are no problems with compatibility between different 
techlevels of ammunition for this gun. The ammunition used is called 5x10mmI 
and it is sold in cases of 2000 rounds, (Lead: 1liter 5kg Cr230) (AP: 1liter 
4kg Cr460) (APDS: 1liter 2kg Cr1380)

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
8  Gun   6   0/2  3  Med  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.10 0.26 501  0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Clip  6                                           0.00 12
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.01 0.7
   AP    6   1/1  2                                  0.01 1.4

9  Gun   6   0/2  3  Med  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.10 0.24 510  0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Clip  6                                           0.00 12
   Lead  6   0/2  3                                  0.01 0.7
   AP    6   1/1  2                                  0.01 1.4
   APDS  6   2/2  2                                  0.01 4.2


Automatic Pistol 7mm

   There are no compatibility issues with the ammunition to this weapon. It 
uses 7x12mmI ammunition which is sold in cases of 1000 rounds, (Lead: 1liter 8
kg Cr117) (AP: 1liter 6kg Cr234) (DS: 1liter 4kg Cr351)

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
6  Gun  15   0/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.48 271  0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.02 11
   Lead 15                                           0.08 1.8

7  Gun  15   1/2  3  Med  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.46 281  0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.02 11
   Lead 15                                           0.08 1.8

9  Gun  15   1/2  3  Med  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.43 293  0.50 +4  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.02 11
   Lead 15                                           0.08 1.8
   DS   15   2/2  3                                  0.03 5.4
   APDS 15   3/2  3                                  0.03 11


Automatic Pistol 9mm

   Using higher techlevel ammunition in a lower techlevel weapon of this type 
will not increase the risk of malfunction. The ammunition is the 9x17mmI, it 
is sold in cases of 1000 rounds, (Lead: 2.7liters 15kg Cr140) (AP: 2.7liters 
11kg Cr293) (DS: 2.7liters 7kg Cr460) (APDS: 2.7liters 7kg Cr920).

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
5  Gun  15   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 1.01 324  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.04 12
   Lead 15   1/2  3                                  0.18 2.1

6  Gun  15   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 1.00 361  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.04 14
   Lead 15   1/2  3                                  0.18 2.2
   AP   15   2/2  3                                  0.13 4.4

7  Gun  15   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 0.96 385  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.04 15
   Lead 15   1/2  3                                  0.18 2.2
   AP   15   2/2  3                                  0.13 4.4

9  Gun  15   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.20 0.91 411  0.50 +2  1 1/1
   Clip 15                                           0.04 16
   Lead 15   1/2  3                                  0.18 2.3
   AP   15   2/2  3                                  0.12 4.6
   DS   15   3/2  3                                  0.07 6.9
   APDS 15   5/2  3                                  0.07 14


Automatic Pistol 9mm Caseless

   I have assumed that due to recoil purposes, a loaded weight of 1kg is 
minimum for a 9mm automatic pistol. Therefore the TL13-16 pistols have extra 
weights in them, 50g at TL13, 140g at TL14, 240g at TL15 and 350g at TL16 
which can be replaced by laser point sights, smartgun options, gyros and so on.
   The weapon has no ammunition compatibility problems. The 9x17mmICls comes 
in cases of 1000 rounds, (Lead: 2.7liters 13kg Cr297) (AP: 2.7liters 9kg Cr594)
 (DS: 2.7liters 4kg Cr891) (APDS: 2.7liters 4kg Cr1782).
   Typical smartgun statistics as offered by Interstellarms in the M911s1ID to 
M911s1IG models (smartgun versions of the basic M911I line) are: TL13 +2 
+Cr108, TL14 +3 +Cr324, TL15 +3 +Cr324, TL16 +4 +Cr972. This particular 
smartgun sensor works with passive IR, so it is rendered ineffective by the 
various forms of IR supression in armors. The slightly more advanced M911s2ID 
to M911s2IG models are capable of combining movement, visual clues and IR to 
fire at moving items and lifeforms. They have the following characteristics: 
TL13 +1 +Cr108, TL14 +2 +Cr324, TL15 +3 +Cr972, TL16 +3 +Cr972.

TL Item Rds  P/A Dmg Rng Aut Dng Sig Recl  Diff Len  Wt   Prc  Fail In  A I/D
8  Gun  30   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.81 358  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                           0.07 20
   Lead 30   1/2  3                                  0.33 8.9
   AP   30   2/2  3                                  0.21 18

9  Gun  30   1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.77 378  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                           0.07 21
   Lead 30   1/2  3                                  0.33 9.2
   AP   30   2/2  3                                  0.21 18
   DS   30   3/2  3                                  0.10 27
   APDS 30   4/2  3                                  0.10 55

10 Gun  30  1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.71 400  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 22
   Lead 30  1/2  3                                  0.33 9.4
   AP   30  2/2  3                                  0.21 19
   DS   30  3/2  3                                  0.10 28
   APDS 30  4/2  3                                  0.10 56

12 Gun  30  1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.64 423  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 23
   Lead 30  1/2  3                                  0.33 9.7
   AP   30  2/2  3                                  0.21 19
   DS   30  3/2  3                                  0.10 29
   APDS 30  5/2  3                                  0.10 58

13 Gun  30  1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.60 446  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 24
   Lead 30  1/2  3                                  0.33 10
   AP   30  2/2  3                                  0.21 20
   DS   30  3/2  3                                  0.10 30
   APDS 30  5/2  3                                  0.10 60

14 Gun  30  1/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.60 471  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 26
   Lead 30  1/2  3                                  0.33 10
   AP   30  2/2  3                                  0.21 20
   DS   30  3/2  3                                  0.10 31
   APDS 30  5/2  3                                  0.10 61

15 Gun  30  2/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.60 496  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 27
   Lead 30  2/2  3                                  0.33 10
   AP   30  3/2  3                                  0.21 21
   DS   30  4/2  3                                  0.10 32
   APDS 30  6/2  3                                  0.10 63

16 Gun  30  2/2  3  Lng  -   -  Med Med/R Hand 0.15 0.60 522  0.50 +3  1 1/1
   Clip 30                                          0.07 27
   Lead 30  2/2  3                                  0.33 11
   AP   30  3/2  3                                  0.21 22
   DS   30  4/2  3                                  0.10 32
   APDS 30  6/2  3                                  0.10 65

- -bertil-
- -- 
"Don't you hate it when you are sitting in a free trader under 90 meters of 
 water, with the jumpdrive disassembled, one turret blown clean off, the hold
 under water, the bridge flooding fast and there is a corsair circling above
 dropping depthcharges at you?"

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2896
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller revision
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 10:09:15 BST

Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk> writes:
>  
> I find all this stuff about a computer virus causing widespread havoc
> across the Imperium to be higly dubious at best.  Even if a mechanism
> for carrying it from world to world could be contrived, it's hard to
> believe that the computer technology on the myriad different worlds
> would be sufficiently compatible to allow it to thrive.

Someone has been taking Scott Kellogg's "Vulture" class craft seriously!
As I recall, he wrote that one such craft was taken over by the computer
of the Kinunir, which has been using various forms of virus to quietly
steal bits and pieces for itself.  Of course, even the Kinunir can't
write a bug-free virus.

(Realises the horrible pun, ducks for cover.  :-)

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2897
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Guns are they!
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 10:22:12 BST

Marc Alexandrovich Volovic <mav@cs.huji.ac.il> writes:
> >> Now - in Traveller we only have "10mm Auto." What about a "Intellarms
> >> S-56 10mm Auto with gyrostabilizer?" Or a "BendArCo 23dm double magazine
> >> 10mm?" Or "Causative XMH-242 8mm, gyrostab, integral bipod, laser
> >> rangefinder and designator?"
> >
> >A bipod on a pistol?  Novel idea, but I don't know if it would sell.  :-)
>  
>   The XMH-242 is an assault weapon a-la Minimi.

I suspected something of the sort, hence the smiley.  First we were discussing
pistols; then, without warning, you included a larger weapon which would be
recognised as such only by people who know the code numbers of every weapon
in existence, including prototypes (I assume the "X" there indicates that this
gun is an experimental or prototype version).

>   I prefer a feature list to Adrian's code system.

To convert my code system to a feature list, simply delete the code number
column.  The reason for the code numbers was for the benefit of GM's whose
PCs' first action upon visiting a planet is to find the weapons shops.
Rather than say "Yes, this shop sells 9mm auto pistols", I'd say "Yes, we
sell auto pistols.  Wait a moment, I'll show you a selection."  I'd then
roll 1D6 for number of types available, then determine the code number
of each type at random.  If I felt up to it at the time, I'd add some of
the additional features as well.  It was a quick'n'dirty way of getting
some variety into the arms market.

>						     Of course, some pieces
> of equipment need additional (GM only) information (i.e. jamming mods) but
> these may be hooked in somehow.

Well, jamming mods might be known to the PC's.  Not the exact modifier, of
course, but someone might know that this particular gun has a habit of
blowing its slide off every so often, or that gun is used by the local
security forces because of its legendary ability to be dropped in a muddy
pool, thrown at a brick wall, placed in a fridge, and still be able to
fire accurately.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2898
From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1991 08:05:53 MST
Subject: FTP site revisited...

I couldn't type when I sent in my last message.  The ftp site address is:

   akbar.cse.nau.edu
         ^^^

Note the change...


- -- 
Let sleeping dragons lie........                    | The RoleMancer 
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
William Wilson (wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu | wilson@nauvax)
Northern AZ Univ  Flagstaff, AZ 86011

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2899
Date:         Tue, 24 Sep 91 13:02:55 EDT
From: Nicholas Sylvain <NPSYLV%WMVM1.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      NewTraveller

Lately I have been very busy (as RJ and Mike Metlay can attest to), but
I feel compelled to drop off this short note in reaction to last night's
commentary by Mike Metlay regarding the state of Traveller and certain
"improvements" looming upon the horizon.

DISCLAIMER: These are my opinions ONLY and if anyone else happens to agree
            with me then whoopee. I am solely responsible for the language
            which may pop up from time to time. If you are easily offended,
            read at your own risk.

In short: Mike, AMEN BROTHER!

Does anyone else get the feeling of deja vu? It reminds me of all that furor
not too long ago when some boneheads at Coca-Cola decided that what the public
needed was "NewCoke" and that they will like it because, hey, they'll buy
anything. The wisdom of foisting a product on an unresponsive consumer
market should have been fairly obvious.

I think that GDW is fooling itself if it believes that Traveller fans will
go for ANOTHER major revision so soon after it labored to produce a presumably
well intentioned but utimately botched mutant. Its painfully obvious flaws
are well known. Look at how it was received by the most die-hard, ardent
fans of Traveller. As Mike noted, the applause was somewhat underwhelming.
Can you imagine how absolute neophytes would feel upon investigating MT
and being brought up short by its glaring faults? They'll vote with their
wallets. Trying to slap on a gold band-aid won't help.

A couple of years ago I decided to get back into gaming -- the obvious
question was with what system? I had neither the time nor the inclination
(nor the money) to keep abreast of more than one system. I chose to go
back to Traveller because I had always liked the way GDW had handled
the Traveller "universe" and felt that I had always gotten my money's
worth from their products. (And I found munchkinism less prevalent among
my Traveller cohorts, but that's another story.)

As they saying goes, what has GDW done for me lately? Produced a half-assed
abortion like MegaTraveller and some notable disasters: I thank the Lord I
listened to TMLers and didn't buy Fighting Sh*ts, and hang my head in shame
for buying COACC. Must have been temporary insanity. Not exactly a way to
build confidence in any further undertakings.

My gut reaction to NewTraveller is "OH NO, NOT AGAIN!"

Will I buy Star Viking, or whatever silly name GDW pastes on it?

NOT BLOODY LIKELY

Why don't the grand poo-bahs at GDW just invest some money in a rubber
stamp and emboss all of their future releases with the legend: OUR LATEST
ATTEMPT TO MAKE PEOPLE FORGET OUR PREVIOUS FAILURES -- PLEASE BUY THIS, WE
PROMISE WE'VE DONE IT RIGHT THIS TIME.

It's like a contractor who builds a small, quality house that everybody
likes and enjoys, but then tears it down and replaces it with a ramshackle
poorly designed monstrosity (but it's better, really!) and keeps on trying
to dress it up by building more upon it. It won't work; if the foundation
is rotten there's little sense in building upon it unless you want the whole
rickety house of cards to come a 'tumblin down.

Has GDW had an unlucky love affair and is now trying to commit suicide?

I heartily agree with Mike's editorial. If it isn't fixed NOW, then it
will be too late for damage control. In my own limited way, I am willing
to exert some effort to save Traveller. Otherwise, I suspect that I will
not be the only one who simply tunes out from GDW's Traveller.

Please help stop GDW before it kills again! :->

- ---

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
 the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
                   -- United States Constitution, Amendment 2

Nicholas Sylvain (npsylv@wmvm1.cc.wm.edu)
Marshall-Wythe School of Law
College of William and Mary

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2900
Date:     Tue, 24 Sep 91 16:38:05 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Latest Travails

SPACE COMBAT

     I had the opportunity (misfortune?) of having space combat in my weekly
Traveller game last Monday night.  I was going to sit down immediately after
the game and write a lengthy diatribe on the flaws in that system, but sense
prevailed.  I woke up the next morning and realized that I had done my 
modifiers backwards, and that the enemy ship with armor-52 (-4 die modifier)
was not, in fact, nearly invincible.  However, the question of discontinuity
between the space and vehicle combat systems remained.  The problem that I
was experiencing was that two small ships (1 200 tons, the other 400 tons)
could not do any damage to each other except Fuel-1, Weapons-1, and, I
think, Maneuver-1 (I'm not sure about that because of the modifier screw
up).  Using the vehicle combat system, we quickly see that a 250 MW laser
has a pretty useful penetration versus an armor-40 hull, and that the
250 damage points done in a typical 'low penetration' hit will pretty well
trash any part of the ship that has separate damage points.  As I described
the combat, our heroes fired numerous missiles at the enemy until all turrets
were knocked out, and then closed to visual range to deliver the coup de grace
to the enemy with their single laser...regrettably the enemy vessel had 
repaired one laser in a triple turret and fired one shot which nearly destroyed
the player's ship's power plant.  I'm satisfied with that result, but not
with the method used to generate it.  (I know, I have a copy of Bertil's
system, but I haven't read it enough to use it yet...).  I found that in the
heat of the game that it was not worthwhile to worry about sensor rolls, and
that the -1 per hex sensor penalty seems too severe given that weapons are
supposed to have a 500,000km range. We also used a Mayday set for combat
resolution, which took a few minutes to explain about vectors...but not so
many minutes that it seemed prohibitive.

THE AFTERMATH

     Now they have a slight problem...the privateers were able to jump, and
their base was only one jump away.  Our heroes would have been cooked had they
not been carrying two 1kl portable fusion plants which they jury-rigged for
some power to the thruster plates.  With maneuver power (of sorts) they
docked with one of the demolished enemy fighters, which fortunately had not
taken a power plant critical hit, and salvaged its power plant.  However, they
managed to ram it in the docking process, and I ruled that their hull was in
such need of repair that they were not capable of a gas giant refueling. I 
also ruled that jumping was out because of massive damage to the jump grids.

     From a gas giant to a main world is usually a considerable distance (I
had often ignored this, but you shouldn't).  By the time they were patched up
and in transit, two new privateers <?> had jumped into the system.  Now they
have landed on the planet (Pagaton, TL4, in an ice age) in a spot that you
could consider to be equivalent to southern Greenland (in the equivalent of
the 1850s--a steam press to bend the hull members back into shape might be
available, but not in 'Greenland').  The enemy is expected to orbit in 24-48
hours.  Should they be easy to find with a densitometer?  Obviously if their
fusion plant is running, they'll show up like a bonfire on the neutrino
sensors.  If they elect to abandon their ship, how often should a free trader
call on this world?  Would a world with refueling (water) available only a
jump-1 from a class A starport be unfrequented?  This all gets back into the
"How many ships in the Imperium?" discussion. Is there a "Distressed Spacemen"
law that says that a free trader has to pick them up?  Just how many TL13
novelty type 'relics' would their be?

     I realize that all of these questions are "Add salt to taste", but I'm 
curious.  Also, does anyone think it would be fair to impose corrosion problems
on the fuel purifying system for working with saturated (21% by weight) sodium
chloride brine as a feedstock?  (Maybe that's why people _buy_ unrefined fuel
rather than ocean dipping...)

     Anyway...I'm still here, although I've been pretty quiet the last few 
weeks.  The final two Horde installments should be along soon.

Good Gaming,

Rob Dean


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2901
Subject: Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 91 19:46:26 PDT
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>

In last night's TML, Mike Metlay asks "What is A.I...?"

According to Joe Fugate, very UNofficially, last October, in Boise,
was asking a bunch of us what we thought about a "different kind of
fantasy/sci-fi rpg."  One where (I truly hope I don't step on any
toes here, and also that I get it right.) for some strange reason,
(something like Vinge's singularity, I think) a portion of humanity
has sort of "outgrown" bodies and planetary constrictions by 
downloading their personalities into AI constructs (hence the name).
There is also another class of PC, (mundanes, if you will) who 
chose not to make the change, and are semi-barbaric, using a 
priestly class, truly intelligent (magick?) devices etc.  Both sides
of the coin are playable.

(disclaimer:  I have *NO* idea what DGP is really up to now, nor
do I know how Joe's plans have changed in the last year.)


Last night, Mike also bemoaned GDW trying to (again) resurrect
Star Viking.  Joe sort of warned us about that, too, although 
I don't remember it well.  It was very late at night, and...

I think we should step back a little and discuss models and values.
The RPG is a moderated virtual reality.  Traditionally we have
built this virtual reality strictly within the minds of our 
players, using abstract rules systems.  Computer games, to date,
have not followed this approach, but rather gone after single-
player, limited-interaction, scripted scenarios.

I assert that GDW (and TSR and FASA and Steve Jackson) only
pursue nostalgia when ther introduce Yet Another RPG based 
on a simple abstract rules system.  Hence, using Twilight
2000 rules as a "house" system will eventually spell their
doom.   UNLESS (and here is where TDR and CAT were on the 
right track) the game houses (or someone) manages to begin
to properly meld 21st-century habits and technology with the
entertainment world, and start building (granted, primitive)
virtual reality enhancements to RPG's.

I reckon that means I agree completely with Mike.  TML is 
IMO the *BEST* place to thoroughly play test and user-test
whatever it is they come up with...if they'll listen.  After
all, we're the ones who are so addicted to this stuff we 
take it to work with us...
- -- 
Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
Pax Electronica.                                         Propogate.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2902
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Reponses on the Revision
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 1:03:03 EDT

My gosh, a few days ago when I posted the info. I had no idea I was 
going to get this much reaction. (grin)

Wilson MacGyver                      | Everytime you have an idea, I get 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | grounded for a week!
=====================================| 			- Gloria
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2903
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 10:53:01 MET DST

> From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.rain.COM>
> Subject: (2901) Re: DGW and Yet Another Traveller
> 
> I assert that GDW (and TSR and FASA and Steve Jackson) only
> pursue nostalgia when ther introduce Yet Another RPG based 
> on a simple abstract rules system.  Hence, using Twilight
> 2000 rules as a "house" system will eventually spell their
> doom.   UNLESS (and here is where TDR and CAT were on the 
> right track) the game houses (or someone) manages to begin
> to properly meld 21st-century habits and technology with the
> entertainment world, and start building (granted, primitive)
> virtual reality enhancements to RPG's.

  I suspect that you are referring to a multimedia approach, ie 'MegaTraveller
the RPG, MegaTraveller the Computergame, MegaTraveller the Movie, 
MegaTraveller the Online-MUD, MegaTraveller the Boardgame, MegaTraveller the
Novel and so on?

  I agree in that, for example, Novels and computer games generate interest in
a game system and leads the 'newbies' to that system if they have a positive
initial contact. A negative initial contact, on the other hand, will be very
damaging to the system, so quality in this is extremely important.

  When it comes to the MUD type of virtual reality enhancements I see their 
purpose as creating interest, because they cannot, at present, emulate the 
flexibility of a human referee. Computer games like MegaTraveller II and Pool 
of Radiance and all that are very far from MegaT and AD&D, but they don't claim
to be anything they are not. A TravellerMud would be a different beast from 
both real Traveller and a computer game version, and it would be non-smart of 
it to claim that it was *real* Traveller.
  Any advanced powerglove/glasses scheme must build upon existing technology, 
since the development costs to do it from scratch probably will be large.
  
  The other ways a system could use electronic resources are PBEM/FRP and
communications and I'm not sure that a PBEM/FRP could be run on a commercial
basis. If the workload the referee handles was handled by a salaried operator,
the per turn cost would be rather prohibitive. (Interpret this as: "You're
doing a great job, Richard!" :)

  Communications on the other hand, is very useful, and many companies have 
already started their BBS-es and areas on commercial services. In some companies
this seem to be something that the design crew and managers (if those groups
are different people, the company is too large:) do if they are interested on
their spare time and in others this has been formalized as a part of the 
normal operation of the company. Steve Jackson Games seems to be an example on 
the latter, and I think this is the way to go.

> Richard Johnson     richard@oresoft.com      richard@agora.rain.com
> Pax Electronica.                                         Propogate.
 
- -bertil-
- -- 
'Det a"r oo"versa"ttbart...'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2904
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Latest Travails
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 11:54:35 MET DST

> From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
> Subject: (2900)  Latest Travails
> 
> SPACE COMBAT
> 
> I found that in the
> heat of the game that it was not worthwhile to worry about sensor rolls, and
> that the -1 per hex sensor penalty seems too severe given that weapons are
> supposed to have a 500,000km range.

  I'll look at that. Judging from the data on what sensors can see on different
ranges, the sensor combat ranges are a little low. Since Mayday uses twice as
large hexes, the sensor ranges could be doubled with the nice side effect that
Maydays movement rules can be used without modification.

> THE AFTERMATH
> 
> Now they
> have landed on the planet (Pagaton, TL4, in an ice age) in a spot that you
> could consider to be equivalent to southern Greenland (in the equivalent of
> the 1850s--a steam press to bend the hull members back into shape might be
> available, but not in 'Greenland'). The enemy is expected to orbit in 24-48
> hours.  Should they be easy to find with a densitometer?

  Since densitometers have a rather bad resolution on long ranges, the only way
someone could detect them distinctly from orbit is if they have any internal
gravitics running. The ship is made of superdense (I assume) combined with
metals of all types and solids and some liquids, and a lot of gasses. If the
resolution is bad enough, the detecting densitometer will just see the average
density in each 'pixel'. Since the density of most civilian ships is about that
of water or ice southern Greenland is a very good place to hide. If the
density of the ship *isn't* correct, it can easily be adjusted by loading on
random rocks and other junk.
  If this has been done, the plant has been shut down, the ship camouflaged
in the visual and IR areas and it is observing radio silence, the only way of
the privateers to find them is to do a densitometer scan at a so short range 
that the densitometer will be able to discern different parts of the ship, and
so detect the superdense hull.

  It will be slightly more undetectable it they put it on the bottom of some
random lake or sea and cover it with silt.

  (As seen in the quote in my sig on the end of the latest machinetools, I
had a very similar situation in my campaign last sunday:)

> If they elect to abandon their ship, how often should a free trader
> call on this world?  Would a world with refueling (water) available only a
> jump-1 from a class A starport be unfrequented?

  I seem to remember reading something about that the IISS prohibits 
introduction of TL6+ items on TL5- worlds. If this is so it would put a wooden
slipper in the mercantile machinery and seriously limit any interest off-
worlders might have in legal interaction with the world. Illegal interaction
is of course always possible but I would advice against hitching a ride 
with a gunrunner.

> Rob Dean
 
- -bertil-
- -- 
'Det a"r oo"versa"ttbart...'

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2905
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: 2Re: Traveller Mk III: An Editorial...
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 12:18:27 MET DST

> From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
> Subject: (2892) Re: (2885) Traveller Mk III: An Editorial by, well, YOU know.
> 
> 	I think the current GDW is quite a bit better about maps, artwork,
> typesetting, and all that stuff in my opinion. Dark Conspiracy in my
> opinion, is the most flashy product GDW has ever produced that I've
> seen. The maps and arts are just wonderful. And let me tell ya, before
> I saw DarkCon, I was very skeptical myself.
 
  You are absolutely correct about flashiness and good layout and all that -
But it still has the same general type of problems that we've seen in the 
MegaTraveller books, ie the referrences to some piece of data found in another
chapter that *simply isn't there*!

  Three examples that comes to mind right now is that the equipment listing 
mentions that contacts work into the availability codes and that exact how this
works is supposed to be found in the section on contacts. Not so.
  I've also not been able to find any explanation of the availability codes
in 'Dark'.
  And in the character generation chapter there is a mention that some weapons
need special licenses, and that data on how to get those is in the equipment
listing. Nope.

  All these examples are just more of what we've seen before. Bad coordination
between different parts of the design team leading to spurious references was
very evident in MegaTraveller. I suspect that the proofreading is done by 
people who *alreay know the system* and unconciously fill in the missing parts
because they know what it should be. The missing availability codes makes this
more likely because they are such a staple in the T2k system that anyone
familiar with it would know about them.

  Don't get me wrong: 'Dark' is still much better editing and typo-wise than
MegaT, but it still hasn't reached the goal.
 
- -bertil-
- -- 
["It's that feeling of yawning emptiness that comes over you as you are close to
  the edge of the TML charter." I hope I dodn't break it, James :)]

[SSLLLUUURRRPPP!!!!! GLOOMP!  Bertil vanishes into a black hole.  No
problem, Bertil -- James]

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2906
From: ihlpf!zonker@ATT.ATT.COM
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 91 09:52 CDT
Subject: Traveller Revisions

    What I have from the horse's mouth (Wally the Wonder, that is): Star
Viking is supposed to be a totally new game.  Frank wants to do a game that
deals with looting on a planetary scale.  This requires limited space travel
and to make it fun a wide diversity of planets (i.e. everything from
barbarians hoarding chickens to fairly advanced systems).  The intro/set up
of which will allude to Traveller as its far past.  The RPG system will be
based on Twilight 2000-2 and the combat system will be a extension of
command decision.  As an aside command decision appears to be a real adaptable
system.  The CITW (including myself and Frank Chadwick) have been playing
Crimean War battles with it and it works.  Star Viking is supposed to be a
game mainly of looting planets so large scale combat will be the norm.
The original virus was supposed to be similar to the PC virus of the last
year or so, but I think I convinced him to do something a little more
elaborate.  I told him he should assume a technological breakthrough which
causes most computers to have a common component (my suggestion was
something organic).  The computer virus then attacks "life support"
processor actually causing the main processor to die of starvation or heat.
The net effect is that it appears to be a normal failure that causes
component replacement it's not until very late that they figure out it is a
virus attacking the life support system rather than a bug in design/manufacturing.
By then production is virtually at a standstill and massive component failure
is occuring.  At any rate you probably won't have to go to SV unless you
want to.
    Frank has also talked about redoing Traveller as the Twilight system.
He seems to understand the problems with doing this so soon after
MegaTraveller.  This is not a new idea and in fact Traveller 2300 was an
attempt to do this as well with t2000-1 (in amy opinion they didn't go far
enough with 2300 and in fact made it too Travellerish).  Personally I like
the Twilight system which is why I agreed to edit the Eternal Soldier
newsletter for GDW.  Will it work (as a system) for Traveller?  The answer
is yes (the system is extremly flexible).  Will it sell?  Who knows, but at
least you will have a proven/workable system to play with.  Will you buy
it?  Probably since many of you seem to require the background support that
the currently supported version provides.  Will there be production problems
.... hard to say, but these are related to the staff and as of right now
things seem to be in good shape.
    Space 1889 suffered from deployment problems caused by delays in the minitures 
for Sky Galleons which was a real horror story i.e. Sky Galleons was about
9 months late and was produced off of reworked miscasts of the masters (the
masters were really hot stuff from what I was told).  This caused what was
initially supposed to be a gradual introduction of products to become a flood.
What interests me the most is the raw nerve the game struck between the
extremes of the hobby the historic games have lashed out at it almost as a
corruption of history (as if what they did was the same thing under another
name) and the fanatasy RPG players have lashed out at it as being too
historical (as though the fact that you could do reasearch in a history book
made it any less fantastic).  Personally having gone gaga as a pre-teen on
H.G.Wells and E. R. Burroughs I like 1889.

 					Non Cuniculus Est,
					    Tom Harris

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End of TML Bundle
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